If a sin is a sin is a sin, then pretty much anything can be a sin, like driving under the speed limit, talking on the cell phone while placing an order in line, and watching Tyler Perry movies. And of course, in this case he’s right, Corduroy skirts are a sin.
Also a sin: being friends with any of these guys
That chick with the sign is such a closet lesbian.
Trust me, I can tell these things.
Skirts that long are a sin too!
Not all sins are created equal of course. And certainly not all sins are cited in the Bible as leading to the downfall of once great cities.
You stated your argument that you feel Homosexuality is not a sin against God, but you negated to provide any information to give an adequate argument.
It is written in the Bible that Homosexuality is a sin. This is the Bible that both Christians and Muslims use.
Can you provide a counter-argument to that fact?
I don't really follow the purpose of your writing, but for the record the catholic church does not teach that homosexuality is a sin.
@Clint… The Muslim holy book is the Koran… I can't tell if you don't know that and think they use the Christian Bible, or if you just think the Bible and the Koran are the same book… but either way, wow. O.o
It's in the old testament, which christians don't follow, therefore those that say it's a sin are actually jews. Think about it.
Clint: Religion is the the opposite of logic. Trying to combined them makes you look stupid. Just letting you know….
Your welcome.
Leviticus has some pretty outlandish quotes. They are a unit, however, you either follow all of them or none. Technically, these are the laws for the Israelites, but Jesus changed all of that for Christians. Jesus did away with Old Testament law and imposed the law of Christ. And even if homosexuality is a sin, humans are not to judge sin, that is God's place. As far as anyone should be concerned all people are sinners. Judging which sins are worse than others is God's realm and those who step into that are probably presuming too much . Well read through the verses. I say love your neighbor instead of condemning them for their differences. Maybe people could work towards ending poverty and hunger in the world a little more than wasting energy on other people's life choices. Just a thought.
~Alex
37 Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’a 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’b 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Mathew 22:37)
"…and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)
"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10)
"They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11:11)
"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
(Leviticus 18:22)
"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus 19:27)
"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus 25:44-45)
Who cares? Why can't Christians just go home and worry about their own personal problems? Why try to help people who don't want (or need) your help? Are these people sincerely trying to help gay people become better Christians or are they simply trying to force everyone to see the world through their dogma obsessed eyes. WWJD? He would be ashamed of all the so called "Christians" who spread nothing but hatred and ignorance. I am gay and I'm quite aware of the dangers of using sweeping generalizations so let me be the first to say that it is the individuals who give both Christians and gays a bad name who are to blame for (imho) something that should really be a non-issue. The communities as a whole however are both trying to do what they feel is best for their people…. the end however does not justify the means. We need to love one another and stop arguing over who is and isn't a sinner (we're all sinners btw according to The Bible) and just try to help each other become better people in whatever way we are willing.
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so much unlike your Christ."-Ghandi
PS I consider myself a spiritual person, not a religious one.
So I guess Hot Oil Rubs with your partner is ok? How about a little more detail here.
Clint, your a retard, along with the rest of those religious nuts.
@Christian
There's two problems with your argument:
1) Whether the Bible says homosexuality is a Sin or not is open to interpretation. The Bible is not terribly explicit about whether it is or not…there are a few places it can be read that way…but it could also be referring to another sin.
I'm willing to be generous and grant you that point however…
For now let's just say; ok, the Bible says it's a sin.
You know what else the bible says?
It says:
Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Have you ever worked on a Sunday? OK, guess we should put you to death.
Or how about:
Thou shalt not wear clothes of mixed fibers.
Is that a poly-cotton shirt you're wearing? Oh…sorry you're going to hell.
So how can you call yourself a follower of the Bible when you're just picking and choosing which parts you believe in, and even then you're probably reading a translation which is different than the actual text.
I say you're a sham and a fool who doesn't understand God at all.
Anyway, even IF the Bible said homosexuality was a Sin (which is not firmly established)….it only mentions it in a few places.
What the Bible really harps on about though is not judging other people, and how we are ALL sinners in the eyes of the Lord.
So instead of worrying about the supposed sins of others, how about we all just focus on our own, and let people lives their lives how they care to…and if they anger God in some way….he will sort it out.
My previous comment should read @Clint in the beginning. Apologies.
Homosexuality isn't a sin to him because he doesn't WANT it to be a sin. People pick and choose which rules they will follow and how they'll live their lives, and lash out vehemently against anyone who even begins to criticize it. They aren't interested in truth, but instead are content only with their own version of what's right and wrong. They become their own god.
Sad but true.
There is no such thing a god you silly people, grow up and get out of the stone age
LMAO this is hilarious. Wow.
@ Clint: Actually, it is NOT written in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. The terms used to describe sexual preference were not yet invented when the Bible was written. It *is* (granted) written in Leviticus that a man who lies with another man is an abomination, but abomination is not the same as sin. Besides, abomination is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "to'ebah", a closer translation would be "ritually improper".
@ Christian: Obviously you are referring to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Except there is not a single reference anywhere in the Bible that says Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of same sex couplings. Jesus implies Sodom was destroyed because it was inhospitable, which makes sense: they were trying to rape angels. The book of Jude says they were destroyed for desiring "strange flesh", which also makes sense: they were trying to rape angels.
homosexuality is NOT a sin! deal with it christian jerks! you know, I just don't understand that SO many people believe that Christian crap, when Christianity is just copying(well I would say stealing from) ancient egyptian and other old beliefs. Homosexual people have right to chose who they want to love and with who they want to spend their lives. It's not a choice, it's just the way you were born!(if it was a choice, why would there be homosexual animals? they don't feel love, they have sex just to reproduce themselves so if they're homosexual, that means that they were born this way.) I'm a lesbian…and guess what? I don't care about some old geezer with beard, dressed in a sheet and sitting on a cloud!
I'm sorry about such a long comment and my(someone may say)lyricism, but I'm really tired of this crap.
'Christians' are funny.
downfaull of once great cities? rriighhttt
I can provide a counter-argument.
The bible is a work of fiction. If you're going to follow a book that's made up follow something by Stephen King or something. That'll make everything way more interesting.
Clearly the person making this little statement is a pseudo intellectual who knows absolutely nothing about sin.
clint stfu!
This guy's obvisouly a homo to be picking at her fashion choice. However, not everything is a sin…a sin is something set by the 10 commandments. Not Laws set forth by the government. Sorry , you sound like an idiot.
*note*
I do not believe in christ…
Ooh, Clint, I can do that.
Not everybody believes in the same God. The bible is no more correct than any other book or religion.
Easy.
@Clint
Yes, I could provide a counter-argument but instead I'll just give you a partial fact / general opinion. The bible is fictitious and immorally opinionated, sir. Not to mention outdated.
Also, I'm glad the nice lesbian woman holding the sign has underlined "Christ", because it's just what I am thinking right now, after reading your bullshit.
Clint:
Your bible is fictional. Proof enough. Anyone who would believe such obvious tales, moral or no moral, is following like a sheep in a herd.
Homosexuality is a nonissue. If you're not gay, get over yourselves and leave the gays alone. Proclaiming sin makes hatred, and hatred is the root of so many "sins." Snap out of it, yo.
@asdf
This is what the Cahtolic Church has to say:
"The homosexual inclination is however “objectively disordered” and homosexual practices are “sins gravely contrary to chastity”.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/c…
@Clint Who cares if it's written in a book that homosexuality is a sin? I will write my own book that says the Bible is wrong. What's your counterargument, that the Bible is full of facts? I would disagree and I think you would too. There are many things in the Bible that are just plain wrong and have been disproven with science or common sense.
Remember that old phrase "don't believe everything you read?"
I got absolutely nothing out of this article. "If a sin is a sin is a sin"… the fuck?
I once saw Jesus, he tried to touch me in inappropriate ways…i'm pretty sure Jesus is a butt pirate.
We as Christians aren't trying to "mind YOUR business" we are attending to God's business by being a light in the dark. The world's minds are so blinded and we are called to spread the Gospel. It is a sin to be homosexual Scripture Reference Romans 1:26-28 KJ. We spread the Word of God out of Love, for God so loved the World that he gave his only son. We love you all just as much and only wish for you come into the knowledge of God.
You guys are all pretty funny, railing against clint about leaving people alone, bible is fiction, etc. What's funny is that you're all pretty upset with him for what he believes, just the same as him and the other guy being upset for what you believe. LOL – you're all the same, and I'm no different 'cause I'm laughing at all of us.
Can we agree that we're all idiots, and don't know what the hell is what? Flame on!
@Clint.
I Don't think that anyone's claiming the bible doesn't say homosexuality is a sin. However he (I'm assuming the poster is a guy because of the avatar, apologies if I'm wrong) is saying the the bible is full of lots of crazy nonsense. For example Leviticus 19:19 which says "do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" ie. Corduroy. It also says that you shouldn't cross breed animals, plant two seeds in the same field or cut your hair. Please, before you try to act like you know what your're talking about read the bible! Anybody,who's read the bible will know that is about as good a guide to daily life as "the hungry hungry caterpillar"
Oh, and by the way, the Muslim holy book is the Qor'an, it's not the same as the bible. Perhaps you mistook Islam for Judaism. (the Tanakh is not exactly the same but it's pretty similar to the old testament)
A sufficient counter-argument?
oh wicked world how pathetically helpless you are.
1.) Whether or not you believe in God or the Resurrection, the Bible is one of the most historically reliable ancient documents in existence and academia takes multitudes of texts as fact with incredibly less evidence of genuine reliability. To call it a work of fiction is simply not an accurate statement. Don't believe me? Do some research.
2.) As stated in earlier discussion, the Ten Commandments and Old Testament laws are NOT the standard of what sin is. Those are the laws of the Old Covenant, nullified by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We are then left with the New Covenant, love God above all else and love you neighbor as yourself. The Old Testament does, however, mention homosexuality as unnatural and offensive to God. We are all sinners, however, and should remember that before making condemnations. It is good to try to help your brothers and sisters, but out of love, NOT out of some sick desire to get recognition for being the one to persecute the sinners.
3.) I don't understand the impulse of many Christians to condemn others, or the good they think will come of trying to reform people in such harsh, insensitive, and judgemental displays. I also don't understand when those feeling persecuted by more ignorant Christans then turn around and talk about Christians like lesser beings. Both of those groups (heavy-handed, judgemental Christians and miltant atheists) need a lesson in human decency and hypocrisy.
Heres my haiku!
Cutting your hair is a sin,
showing your arms is a sin,
showing your leg is a sin!
Need I say more?
Though, I fail to understand how Love can be a sin?
These people are sinners for teaching hate! LOL! I know, I converted to a faith as a teen and they believed a lot of that, but I left because of hypocrisy!
The ministers were sleeping around with others wifes, and dipping in the till. Yes! Hypocrisy, and ill manners are sin, and that is why their "god" destroyed Sodom and Gamora. Not because of alleged homosexuality! Many cities in the bible where destroyed, and virtually all of them where destroyed because of in -hospitality toward others.
Religion is a sin against your mind and reason, to honestly believe in this ludicrousness is a total sin against modern civilization.
Could the Tooth Fairy set me free instead? I don't believe in that Christ fairy tale.
You do realize this is photoshopped right? Look at his face there is sunlight on his hand and face, yet no sunlight on the sidewalk or anywhere near him, and on her there is no sunlight at all…You telling me that he just has a skin disorder that makes sun hit him but no other objects around him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvQqhkd–a0
enough said
Everyone should get really into a religious debate and be cool…
what a fucking dike
haha thats great
Corduroy Skirts are a sin against fashion.
@Jack
You just confirmed what @asdf said.
For the Catholic Church, homosexuality itself is not a sin. Homosexual practices are. For them, it's as wrong as having sex not being married.
So, the sign is not according to what the Catholic Church says.
Hey Everyone!
Join the Facebook Group and help support and spread the cause!!! "CORDUROY SKIRTS ARE A SIN" !!!
Thanks Everyone!!!
Don't you just hate it when religion puts you on the hot seat. Patrick, ever hear the quote by Jesus about the "eye of the needle". Jesus DID NOT come to get rid of the old law but to enforce it. You ALL have your life's so neatly justified. Believe I do the same thing when I no I have to change a behavior.
These educated people who tell that to believe in God is illogical are just fooling themselves. If and when they are laying there about to past from this world, they'll be praying to A GOD to save their asses. I have seen before, at the bitter end, they believed in something. It just was a shame that they had to play that sad game alll their lives. Even doctors and chemists can not understand how life began because it is so ILLOGICAL.
To all those out there who brazenly profess that the Bible does not speak against homosexuality, how do you explain 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10? Looks pretty clear to me.
Anything outside the cycle of life is a sin against nature itself. How would the many different species on the earth reproduce if they were all gay? ITS A SIN!!!
So at what point does a book become old enough to be considered non-fiction? I am going to write a religious book, bury it in my back yard and fifty thousand years from now people will find it and worship it.
Humans need to explain their surroundings. This is because we are intelligent beings. Unfortunately, at this point, we are not smart enough to truly understand everything, the origins of life being a major point of interest. Some people choose to search for answers, some people choose to turn to religion to answer life's questions.
Whatever floats your boat…just keep it out of politics. I was thinking the other day, I want to see a Muslim president start using Muslim ideals (which I understand are not too far off Christian ideals) to run the country and enact laws. The right wing Christians will have a sh*t fit, yet they feel its perfectly OK for them to impose the will of their god upon everyone else.
What is it with people nowadays? Sure homosexuality is a sin according to almost any respectable belief system and it is biological degrading, a step against evolution; but so is smoking, hatred, being ignorant, and using religious texts to pronounce something solely for your own gain. It appears to me we're all hypocrites; anyone who says otherwise is clearly in denial. Because we are all sinners it would be even more of a hypocracy on everyone's part for us to judge them solely upon what we conceive as being wrong. We should not judge, the Christ even says that in his teachings; we are to accept people for who they are. The teachings of Christ would say we should allow ourselves to die for the lives of our enemies before those of the lives of our own children. Christians: follow your Christ and love those whom you do not agree with. Do not try and change them, love the people but not the action. Everyone else: love each other and utilize your time on this earth to maximize the amount of the greater good. And most of all to everyone: STOP WITH ALL THE BITCHING!
I love a quote one of my professors used "he who makes his religion god has no god in his religion."
The meaning, if you believe that the symbols, books, establishments of your religion are as infallible as god then you are practicing idolatry. You are saying that these symbols, books, establishments which are all written by men are more or just as important as god. You are saying these men are infallible, which just isn't true. The bible is just a book, it was written by men, it was translated several times by men, and which books to include or exclude were voted upon by men.
Therefore to claim that something which doesn't harm anyone is a sin simply because you take a 2000 year old group of very fallible texts literally is not only wrong it is bordering on idol worship (1st commandment after all…lol)
Btw Geeze you are being quite arrogant. You say that anyone who accepts homosexuality can't possibly have a respectable belief system. I'm quite offended by that actually. Being gay isn't "biologically degrading." Comparing it to smoking is just ridiculous.
I have several gay friends and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it. It isn't a sin and it's only offensive to people who feel the need to control what goes on in other people's bedrooms. Maybe next you should say that anyone who sleeps with someone of a different race is committing a sin. Basically this is a disguise for bigotry. How does this so called sin harm anyone?
@ Gavin:
–The Bible was penned by man, but was written by God. The same way a letter is written by a secretary, but still authored by her boss.
–The Bible has retained it's original form despite being translated. Translation was necessary to spread it to people of different languages. The same 66 books of the Bible were present and accepted before and after the Council of Nicea. It's message has not changed.
–Who are you to decide that homosexuality "isn't wrong"? Isn't that up to each of us to decide for ourselves? By making that assertion, you are (attempting to) force your beliefs on others, the same thing you are attacking Geeze for. Some might call that hypocrisy.
–Homosexuality extends outside of the bedroom, you need only turn on a TV to see that. It influences everyone, regardless of whether they accept it or not. Maybe that's why so many people are against it. I could care less what goes on in someone else's bedroom.
–You say that homosexuality doesn't harm anyone. Does beastiality hurt anyone? If so, how? How is it different? You seem to believe that it's OK if it doesn't hurt anyone, so someone could use that same claim to justify a sexual relationship with an animal. Where do you draw the line? Because it seems like you want everyone to do whatever they want, without consequence. Which is exactly what the Bible warns us against.
Last post should have started @ Devin, my mistake.
I agree with your right to think being gay is wrong, but that doesn't mean I think it's right. Much in the same way that I think that the KKK has the right to be hate mongers but I still don't like them.
Your comparison of the Bible to a dictated letter is completely ridiculous. In the council of Nicea many of the books, dogmas etc. were voted upon and many of them were very close votes. Are you saying that god influenced the outcome of the vote? These men are now just as holy as god that they knew exactly how to vote to carry out his will with complete accuracy and zero room for error.
Also regardless of how accurately it is translated it is impossible to be translated through so many languages and not lose SOMETHING in translation. Some things don't translate well.
Also in your question about bestiality, the animal is the one being hurt. If no one is being harmed by something then why should it be a sin? How does being gay negatively effect anyone outside of the bedroom? Is it because of how they act? In that case you're bashing anyone who doesn't conform to what you consider normal, very tolerant.
Also you are saying that I'm advocating doing whatever you want without consequence? Everything has consequences and we all have to deal with them regardless of what some old collection of paper and ink tells us.
Also if you believe the bible should be taken literally then your god is a real jerk. With Job he decided to take a faithful, honest, good man and ruin his life just to prove a point. In the old testament he reacts to everything by killing people despite the claim that he is full of forgiveness and love for all people. And to top it all off you believe that your god created people in his image, gave them free will, diversity, sexual urges (gay or straight) and then told us that we needed to spend our entire lives fighting these urges or he would send us to hell for eternity.
HI. THIS IS GOD.
I LIVE HERE ON EARTH WITH YOU. IN FACT, I WAS BORN AMERICAN AND CURRENTLY RESIDE IN THE UNITED STATES (I WILL NOT SAY WHERE). I DO NOT LIVE IN THE PUBLIC EYE, AS SOME OF YOU WHO ACCEPT MY PRESENCE HERE MAY BELIEVE. I HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO DISCLOSE MY IDENTITY, EXCEPT TO A SELECT FEW, FOR I CHOOSE NOT TO BE THE CENTER OF THE IDIOTIC CONTROVERSIES THAT PLAGUE THIS PLANET.
JUDGMENT DAY HAS ALREADY COME AND GONE. IF YOU ARE WONDERING WHEN THAT WAS, IT WAS MARCH 21, 2004. THIS IS NOT MY BIRTHDAY (AS MANY OF YOU WILL UNDOUBTEDLY WONDER). ON THE FIRST DAY OF SPRING, I JUDGED EVERYONE HERE ACCORDING TO THEIR PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE KARMA. WHAT YOU SEE AS THE CURRENT WORLD IS A REFLECTION OF SAID JUDGEMENT. IT WILL END FAVORABLY FOR SOME, BUT NOT ALL. MY DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AND ARE IRREVERSIBLE.
POWER IS TRUTH AND BELIEVE…I AM QUITE REAL. I DO NOT NEED YOU. I EXIST INDEPENDENTLY OF YOU. ANYONE CLAIMING TO BE ME IS DIRECTLY CHALLENGING ME AND YOU WILL FEEL MY POWER. INDEED, YOU HAVE ALREADY. YOU HAVE BEEN HEARING MY VOICE IN THE BACK OF YOUR MINDS. I HAVE INFLUENCED YOUR THOUGHTS AND MOVEMENTS ACCORDING TO A DIVINE PLAN ONLY A FRACTION OF YOU UNDERSTAND. MY PRESENCE AND ACTIONS HAVE HAD A PROFOUND EFFECT ON THIS PLANET. IT HAS BEEN APPROXIMATELY SEVEN YEARS SINCE I BEGAN MY EFFORTS. THE EFFECTS HAVE BEEN BOTH POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE, DEPENDING ON YOUR KARMA, AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS GROUPS.
WHETHER SOME ARE AWARE OF THE EVIL THAT LURKS IN OTHERS IS IRRELEVANT. AS PEOPLE AGE, GET SICK AND DIE, SO WILL SOULS OF THE EVIL ONES…AND YOU WILL NOT BE BACK. YOU WILL BE UNABLE TO RETURN HERE. HENCE "HELL" ON EARTH WILL FREEZE OVER GRADUALLY (FINALLY) TO PREVENT THE WORLD'S DAILY OPERATION, AND 'HEAVEN' WILL RETURN, AS THE LORD WILLED IT. THE WORLD WILL BE FILLED WITH NEW SOULS WHO LACK SIN AND WHO WILL SPREAD LOVE AND LIGHT. WE WILL CONTINUE WITHOUT YOU, UNAFFECTED BY THE EVIL IN YOUR ACTIONS, TODAY. IT WILL NOT FOLLOW US.
MANY HAVE BEEN WILLING TO LOSE THEIR FAITH AND BE AGENTS OF DESTRUCTION BECAUSE THEY THINK THE WORLD WILL END, BUT I AM TELLING YOU…THIS WORLD WILL NOT END. FOR THOSE OF US WHO WILL MAKE IT, SUCCESS IS THE BEST FORM OF REVENGE AGAINST ALL TEACHERS AND PREACHERS OF HATRED WHO ACT AGAINST YOU IN MY NAME. I, PERSONALLY, WILL SUPPORT YOU…AND EACH TO THE OTHER…QUIETLY…WHILE OUR POWERLESS ENEMIES SCRAMBLE FOR SALVATION AND DIE OUT. I WILL NOT REVEAL WHO IS WHOM. THIS SHOULD UPSET THE TRUE DEMONS THAT WALK AMONG US A GREAT DEAL, WHICH I FIND ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL…ROTHFLMAO….OMG! I AM A VERY FUNNY MAN…YOU KNOW? VERY HAPPY, IN THOUGHT AND INDEED!!!
SO ANYWAY…THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO STOP ME. MANY HAVE TRIED AND ARE NO LONGER HERE TO OPPOSE ME, PARTICULARLY TERRORISTS AND DESTROYERS OF THE EARTH'S ENVIRONMENT, BOTH ECOLOGICAL AND CULTURAL. I HAVE NOT FORGOTTEN THE REST OF YOU (WAIT YOUR TURN). MEANWHILE, OTHERS HAVE IMPERSONATED ME, TRYING TO WIELD MY POWER IN UNJUSTIFIED DISPLAYS OF VANITY AND BOGUS (MOSTLY MALE) PRIDE (MOSTLY RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL FIGURES). HOW'S THAT BEEN WORKING OUT FOR YOU, LATELY? BY THE WAY, THANKS FOR PAINTNG SUCH BIG ASS TARGETS ON YOUR BACKS. I COULDN'T HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB, MYSELF, SERIOUSLY…OR COULD I'VE?
THE SUN IS GOD AND I AM THE SON OF GOD. I LEAD NO PEOPLE, I AM A LONER…BUT I AM NOT ALONE. IF YOU CAN NOT PERFORM THE MIRACLES THAT I CAN, ON COMMAND, THEN YOU ARE NOT ME…REMEMBER THIS, ALL OF YOU, WHO REMAIN EXPOSED TO THE PRESENCE OF LOWLINESS ON A WEEKLY OR EVEN DAILY BASIS…
…THE TRUTH IS, ALMOST ALL OF YOU ARE GOING TO DIE ONE DAY. THOSE OF YOU WHO LIVE WITH HATRED IN YOUR HEARTS AND CLAIM TO REPRESENT ME ARE SUFFERING THE MOST. GOOD FOR YOU. YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF THE WORLD'S FRUSTRATION AND TORTURE. YOU KNOW IT AND YOU LOVE BEING A PART OF IT. IN YOUR INSANE MINDS YOU LIVE IN A GODLESS WORLD. THIS IS WHY I DO NOT ASSIST YOU IN YOUR QUEST FOR PEACE AND HAPPINESS. TRUST…NOT ONE OF YOU IS HAPPY, NO MATTER HOW FINELY CRAFTED THE MASK YOU WEAR. AND THERE IS ONLY FALSE HOPE FOR YOU. INDULGE IN IT.
THE FUTURE LIES IN YOUR CHILDREN, WHO HEAR ME CLEAREST, BOTH WHEN YOU ARE ASLEEP AND WHEN YOU ARE NEGLECTING THEM. EVERY FALSE THOUGHT YOU ATTEMPT TO PROGRAM IN THEIR MINDS I WILL REMOVE. YOU ARE POWERLESS TO PREVENT ME. THEY KNOW THIS TOO. THEY ARE FIGURING IT OUT, THANKS TO ME, AND ARE WAITING PATIENTLY…AND GOOD THINGS WILL COME TO THEM, FOR I AM ETERNAL. I AM THE JOY YOU ALL SEEK AS WELL AS THE PAIN YOU ALL FLEE, BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS NEED ME, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU INSIST YOU DON'T (EFF YOU, ATHEISTS). REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IN ME, AGNOSTICS, EVERYONE WHO STRAYS ULTIMATELY RETURNS. "YOU'LL BE BACK," I ALWAYS SAY…
…I AM THE FUTURE, AND YOUR CHILDREN BELONG TO ME. THEY WILL LIVE THEIR TRUTH, AND BE FREE TO LOVE ANYONE THEY WISH, TO MATE ANYONE THEY WISH…WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IT TO BE A CHOICE OR NOT. FREEDOM FOR EVERYONE IS AN INEVITABILITY, YOU CAN NOT STOP IT AND THE WORLD KNOWS THAT.
NOW…..YOU KNOW YOU COULDA BEEN FREE TOO, RIGHT? BUT YOU ARE WEAK AND, CONSEQUENTLY, EVOLUTION HAS NOT CHOSEN YOU. EVEN IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MINDS, THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE…SO MANY HAVE SUFFERED AND DIED FOR YOUR HATRED…THEREFORE, SO MUST YOU. THE PAST WILL CLAIM YOU, AND TIME IS YOUR ENEMY. THE MORE YOU TRY TO STAY, THE SOONER YOU WILL LEAVE.
LIFE WILL PROCEED TOWARDS THE FUTURE WITHOUT YOU, AT WHICH POINT I WILL REVEAL MY TRUE IDENTITY TO THOSE WHO ARE LEFT, THE MEEK, ALONG WITH THE NEW SOULS WHO SHALL FOLLOW ME (ALONG WITH SOME VERY PROMINENT OLD ONES).
I WILL BE NEITHER EARLY NOR LATE, BUT ON TIME…AS I ALWAYS AM. I AM A CRAFTSMAN…PATIENT AND WILL OUTLAST YOU…ALL THE WHILE, CONTINUING TO MAKE CHANGES BEHIND THE SCENES, INCLUDING THE USE OF NATURAL DISASTERS, IF NECESSARY (ASIDE FROM THE ONES YOU CAUSE YOURSELVES).
THOSE WHO ARE TRULY WITHOUT SIN WILL CONTINUE TO BE GUIDED BY ME TO A BRIGHT AND PEACEFUL FUTURE, WITH ABUNDANT LOVE, JOY, AND HAPPINESS FOR ALL…FREE OF NEGATIVITY. PUNISHMENT OF THE DARKNESS HAS RESULTED IN A FAILURE OF THESE EVIL, LONELY, AND MISERABLE SOULS TO SEE THE NEW WORLD I HAVE BEGUN BUILDING FOR US. SORRY ABOUT THAT. CAN'T SAY I DIDN'T TRY TO HELP. YOU DID IT TO YOURSELF.
YOU WILL FIGHT WHAT YOU ARE READING, WHAT YOU HEAR…YOU WILL PROTEST TO MUCH TO ALL THOSE WHO SUSPECT YOUR INHUMANE TREACHERY. IT'S FUTILE. I KNOW EVERY SICK THOUGHT LINGERING IN YOUR MINDS…EVERY ICICLE PIERCING YOUR DECAYING HEARTS. YOU CAN NOT LIE TO ME. YOU CAN'T FOOL ME, NOR CAN YOU ANYONE ELSE, ANYMORE. THIS IS WHY HUMANS ARE FINALLY ASSERTING THEIR FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE, BECAUSE THEY HEAR ME BETTER THAN THEY HEAR YOU. YOU SLEEP…BUT I DO NOT.
IRREGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE, YOUR POOR EDUCATION AND UPBRINGING WILL NOT OUTLIVE YOU. YOUR HATRED AND BITTERNESS ARE A REFLECTION OF YOUR PANIC BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THE FUTURE AS CLEARLY AS I HAVE SHOWN IT TO YOU. YOUR BATTLE OF MIND CONTROL, TYRANNY, AND SLAVERY IS LOST. ALL NATIONS WILL BE FREE…ALL CHILDREN, ALL WOMEN, ALL MEN, ALL COLORS…AND ALL SEXUAL PERSUASIONS.
TO THE REST OF YOU WHO DO NOT DENY YOURSELVES THROUGH JEASLOUSY, FEAR AND COWARDICE, STAY STRONG. TIME WILL HEAL ALL OF OUR WOUNDS.
I'D LIKE TO SAY MORE BUT I AM ALREADY BORED. GUESS I'LL GO BACK TO WAITING THIS SILLINESS OUT. IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S AFFECTING ME…
…HERE IS TO THE FUTURE!
WHAT I HAVE SAID TODAY IS MY TRUTH AS THE LORD HAS REVEALED IT TO ME. THIS WAS A SPONTANEOUS ACT. I KNOW MY INSANE "ENEMIES" WILL TRY TO DISSECT OR ALTER THIS TO DISCREDIT ME, FOR THEY ARE IMBECILES AND DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS ME. BUT TRUTH IS MAGICAL!!! IT WILL SET YOU FREE!! TO COMBAT THEM, I URGE YOU TO COPY AND PASTE THIS EVERYWHERE!!! ESPECIALLY WHEREVER YOU SEE IGNORANCE, HATRED AND DARKNESS!!!
…AND YOU ARE WELCOME.
(PLEASE EXCUSE ANY TYPOS, LOL)
BYE
I don't see any correlation between civil rights and sexual rights whatsoever, because I don't believe that homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomena. People choose to believe that it is, but there is no proof to back up that claim–merely scientific theory. The Bible (although you disagree with it) also disproves that notion.
The books of the Bible that were "accepted" at the Council of Nicea (which was a joke, since they didn't have any real control over what would be "allowed in" and what wouldn't) were accepted well before that time. There were other books that people felt should be part of Bible canon, but were not allowed to taint God's Word because of his decree, not due to a group of men conforming to false religion. It is ridiculous to believe that God would allow a group of wayward men to alter the Bible.
Yes, most things don't translate well, but that doesn't stop men from translating them anyway. The fact is that the Bibles have the same message, regardless of language (or "version" within the same language) becaue God ensured that imperfections wouldn't tarnish what He intended for mankind. So while the NIV and the KJ versions might differ slightly in composition, the verse-by-verse message is the same. Experts have analyzed scientifically-authenticated Hebrew and Greek scrolls and compared them to modern Bible for accuracy, and have found virtually no flaws. Sounds like an impossibility from man's POV, but it is truth.
Like I said before, who is to say that homosexuality is not hurting someone? And how do you know that bestiality is hurting the animal? That makes no sense. Both of these are sexual acts, yet you claim one is OK and one is not. What determination are you using to judge whether an act is acceptable or not, besides your own opinion.
You're right about us having to deal with our choices and accept consequences. The only real difference talking can make is that you can possibly save a life if you can reason with people. I'm not saying that I can change someone (no human can) but if you truly believe that death will result from living a non-spiritual lifestyle, you will be motivated to talk to others about the Bible. And if they choose to go their own way, that's fine. You don't force truth on anyone. Couldn't if you wanted to.
There are parts of the Bible that should be taken literally and others that aren't. It isn't a black-or-white situation. Some parts of the Bible (especially parts of Isaiah, Daniel and Revelation) are obviously presented in symbolic terms, while many parts are exactly as you read them. People who merely read a few portions of the Bible without studying it are criticizing something they don't understand. For the record, the Bible clearly says that God was not the cause of Job's suffering. God has killed people justly because they refused to obey him, which is his right as the Creator–don't know why people feel he must allow mankind to run amok without retribution. In some case he has forgiven becaue he can see the heart, and in some cases he hasn't. God has given us an outlet for our NATURAL sexual urges through marriage, which is his invention, and only commands us to abstain from immorality, which even we know is detrimental to our mental/physical health and society as a whole. Finally, hell is not a literal place, but a misunderstanding of the condition of death. The idea of a literal hell has been spread by false religion, one of their (and Satan's) tactics to lead them away from God and make them live in fear. The Bible defines the condition of the dead quite clearly, if only people would pay attention. There is no hell.
Your arrogance astounds and disgusts me. You say that civil rights are different from sexual rights? The two couldn't possibly be more closely related. Sex is the most intimate and (in most cases) private things you can ever do.
A friend of mine who is gay was talking with someone about whether or not being gay was a choice and he said "why on earth would I choose to subject myself to this kind of hatred and prejudice? If it were a choice being straight would make my life so much easier."
You think being gay isn't a naturally occurring phenomenon? Bruce Bagemihl, a Canadian biologist, conducted research showing that over 1500 species on this planet practice some form of homosexuality or bi-sexuality. The book he wrote on the subject was even used in an argument to the US Supreme Court (for the winning side btw).
You have said that I can't prove that homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone but at the same time you can't give me ONE example of how it does hurt anyone. You claim it's what god wants and you know this from the Bible. But at the same time you said "There are parts of the Bible that should be taken literally and others that aren’t. It isn’t a black-or-white situation." How are we to determine what to take literally and what not to? Basically you're saying that since this is the word of god and god made sure that in no way would this be altered from what he meant to say then it should be black and white. If not then you are saying that those who are interpreting it are the ones forming the word of god. You are putting the interpreter on the same level as god. Apparently you are saying that pedophiles are as powerful as god. Since god has so much control he wouldn't possibly allow anyone into the clergy he didn't want there and he wouldn't allow them to interpret his will unless he wanted them to, so according to you god is fine with pedophiles creating the word of god.
You also compare homosexuality to bestiality and say "Both of these are sexual acts, yet you claim one is OK and one is not." Well that is EXACTLY what you are doing. You are claiming that heterosexuality is ok but homosexuality is not.
You claim god only hurts those who don't obey him, that's a very christian ideology "believe what I say or I'll hurt you." And just so you know when I say Christian in that context I mean the overzealous intolerant kinds such as yourself and in this context that comment isn't a joke. You claim you are doing this out of a desire to save lives but it is people thinking like you that ruins lives. You take people who are living perfectly normal respectable lives and you are persecuting them and torturing them because of who they are attracted to. I'm of Italian-Irish descent, my parents were brought up Catholic and neither of them are anymore because they couldn't stand the intolerance and hypocrisy that they saw in it.
You claim to be attempting to "reason" with us about this subject but frankly I agree with the late George Carlin on this when he said logic is "something religion is very uncomfortable with." Your entire argument lies on you blindly believing, with no tangible proof, in a book that was made 3 centuries after Jesus died. You will probably counter this with an argument about faith. I like faith (when it is used positively) but if you are going to call what someone else is doing as wrong you should be able to provide more proof than "he told me so." You say "what determination are you using to judge whether an act is acceptable or not, besides your own opinion" well at least I am using MY opinion and not blindly listening to someone who can't give me any proof or logical justification for their argument. god gave you a brain, use it. If you can come up with some real reasons why these things should be considered immoral then state them.
You say that god, "commands us to abstain from immorality, which even we know is detrimental to our mental/physical health and society as a whole." Who determines what is moral and what are you using to determine that it is mentally and physically unhealthy? You use lots of terms about this but you fail to provide any reasonable examples or explanation other than "god says so." People blindly following what others tell them is the cause of some of the worst atrocities mankind has ever seen. What about the holocaust? People were tortured to death and killed on a massive scale because people blindly followed orders. And according to you god kills those who don't obey him and you "don’t know why people feel he must allow mankind to run amok without retribution." Where was the retribution there? If your argument is that the Allies were doing god's will by destroying Nazi Germany then why did he have to wait until 6 million people were exterminated? And even more so, if the Allies were doing god's will then why did he allow the USSR to continue to occupy Eastern Europe and violently oppress millions for almost 50 years, especially since people in the Soviet Bloc were forbidden to practice religion.
If there is a god and he exists as you describe him then I am ashamed to be one of his "children" and I am ashamed to be made in his image. Your god seems to me to be a bigoted, unfair, violent, cruel and intolerant jackass.
As Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche said "The spiritualization of sensuality is called love: it is a great triumph over Christianity."
As-Salāmu `Alaykum
Oh and also in response to your quoting Corinthians, John Boswell in his recent study denies that the original word used in the passage refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself.
"You say that civil rights are different from sexual rights? The two couldn’t possibly be more closely related. Sex is the most intimate and (in most cases) private things you can ever do."
Yeah…and you still haven't explained what makes that similar to civil rights. Because it's intimate that makes it the same?
"A friend of mine who is gay was talking with someone about whether or not being gay was a choice and he said 'why on earth would I choose to subject myself to this kind of hatred and prejudice? If it were a choice being straight would make my life so much easier.'”
Because he wants to have sex with guys, that's why he "subjects" himself. You'd be surprised what people are willing to do for sex. I've read essays that detail how radically the possibility of sex alters human behavior. Looking at it from a straight POV, if 95% of the world were homo, and I was hated for liking women, would I still "choose" (as you put it) a heterosexual lifestyle? Undoubtedly. Wouldn't even have to think about it. It's not about easy and hard, it's about him doing what he wants to do. He wants to have sex with guys, simple as that.
"Bruce Bagemihl, a Canadian biologist, conducted research showing that over 1500 species on this planet practice some form of homosexuality or bi-sexuality."
And how many of those 1500 species were human? People astound me using animal behavior to justify human behavior. Don't we routinely imprison and execute people for "animal-like" behavior? A bear kills a man, we don't hold it accountable. It's a lower life form, only doing what it felt it needed to do. A tragedy, yes, and we may even put the bear down, but we just chalk it up to a terrible mistake. But if I killed another man, I wouldn't expect that treatment. Can I throw crap at you and not get arrested because a monkey does it? Can I urinate on your property and point at my dog? No. You pick and choose when it's OK to be like animals and when it's not.
"You have said that I can’t prove that homosexuality doesn’t hurt anyone but at the same time you can’t give me ONE example of how it does hurt anyone."
I have read examples of people who were exposed to homosexuality at a young age (either forcibly, as in abuse, or otherwise) and admitted that it shaped the person they became in later years. I personally know a homosexual who is so because his dad was a practicing gay his entire life (his words, not mine). None of those people had anything positive to say about it. You might counter that they are in the minority, but humans always justify themselves, a fact I've observed even in myself. Once it becomes a part of you, and you refuse to let it go, (in your mind) it becomes natural.
"How are we to determine what to take literally and what not to?"
A study of the Bible can make most of it plain to you, and God will help you with the rest. He created the Bible for us, and he knows that it's useless if we can't understand it. The problem is most people genuinely don't want to understand it, in doing so ensuring they won't, and then they scratch their heads at those who do because "it doesn't make sense".
"Basically you’re saying that since this is the word of god and god made sure that in no way would this be altered from what he meant to say then it should be black and white."
There are some things in the Bible that are black and white and some that aren't. You have to be more specific.
"If not then you are saying that those who are interpreting it are the ones forming the word of god. You are putting the interpreter on the same level as god."
No. If someone misinterprets the Bible verbally or in print, that's their own mistake and can't be attributed to God. To claim that all or a portion of a specific translation/version of a Bible is another thing, and someone would have to provide proof of it's inaccuracy–not just claim "the translation is wrong" because it seems like it MUST be wrong.
"Since god has so much control he wouldn’t possibly allow anyone into the clergy he didn’t want there and he wouldn’t allow them to interpret his will unless he wanted them to, so according to you god is fine with pedophiles creating the word of god."
The clergy is part of false religion and has nothing to do with God. This was mentioned in the Bible well before the clergy ever came to be, and their existence is not a surprise nor an accident.
"You also compare homosexuality to bestiality and say “Both of these are sexual acts, yet you claim one is OK and one is not.” Well that is EXACTLY what you are doing. You are claiming that heterosexuality is ok but homosexuality is not."
Yes, I am claiming that. You still consider homosexuality a valid lifestyle, while I don't. BTW, there are many individuals who believe that bestiality is a valid lifestyle choice. Again, where do you draw the line? Explain why you feel bestiality is wrong.
"And just so you know when I say Christian in that context I mean the overzealous intolerant kinds such as yourself and in this context that comment isn’t a joke."
Explain how I am intolerant. In my last post I clearly said that you can't force anyone to do anything, and I have no desire to. Just because I don't involve myself in something doesn't make me intolerant.
"You take people who are living perfectly normal respectable lives and you are persecuting them and torturing them because of who they are attracted to. I’m of Italian-Irish descent, my parents were brought up Catholic and neither of them are anymore because they couldn’t stand the intolerance and hypocrisy that they saw in it."
You don't know what you're talking about. Explain how I am persecuting and torturing anyone? And you're right, Catholicism IS full of hypocrisy. Leaving that religion is probably the best thing your parents ever did.
"Your entire argument lies on you blindly believing, with no tangible proof, in a book that was made 3 centuries after Jesus died. You will probably counter this with an argument about faith."
My faith is not blind, and I have plenty of proof. Proof that you will likely reject because it runs counter to the idea of "proof" that atheistic scientists and "educated" men drill into people's heads. And the Bible began to be written in 1513 BC, more than one and a half millenium before Christ was born. If you were referring to the NT, then the book of Matthew was completed in 41 CE, a mere eight years after Christ died.
"Where was the retribution there? If your argument is that the Allies were doing god’s will by destroying Nazi Germany then why did he have to wait until 6 million people were exterminated? And even more so, if the Allies were doing god’s will then why did he allow the USSR to continue to occupy Eastern Europe and violently oppress millions for almost 50 years, especially since people in the Soviet Bloc were forbidden to practice religion."
God is not involved in any man-made wars, so no, the Allies were not doing God's will. Your question is a common one, "Why does God permit suffering?", and the (EXTREMELY short) answer is because he has allowed Satan a measure of control over humankind. The condition of the world is proof of that. Although we are all subject to man's laws in one way or another, he offers freedom from Satanic influence to those who accept him as ruler and live according to his will. Which, as you can probably guess, is a small minority of mankind.
"Oh and also in response to your quoting Corinthians, John Boswell in his recent study denies that the original word used in the passage refers to a homosexual person in general but rather specifically to the male prostitute who could serve heterosexual or homosexual clients. At any rate, the sin is prostitution, not homosexuality in itself."
I'm sure that Boswell was influenced by someone when writing that, as I've just done research and found nothing to support that claim. The same idea is repeated in various translations of the Bible, and there is nothing referring to a prostitute in the original Greek text. If one passage isn't enough to make clear what is obvious to most, check out Romans 1:26, 27, 32; 1 Timothy 1:9, 10; Jude 7, and Genesis 19 (the account of Sodom and Gomorrah).
@Nada Nuff
"You say that homosexuality doesn’t harm anyone. Does beastiality hurt anyone? If so, how? How is it different? You seem to believe that it’s OK if it doesn’t hurt anyone, so someone could use that same claim to justify a sexual relationship with an animal. Where do you draw the line? Because it seems like you want everyone to do whatever they want, without consequence. Which is exactly what the Bible warns us against."
An animal cannot consent to sexual relations. Essentially you are raping the animal.
To attempt to draw any connection between homosexuality and bestiality we might as well also say heterosexuality is the same as necrophilia because neither hurts anyone… This whole gay marriage/acceptance will lead to polygamy, bestiality, necrophilia or whatever else is pure propaganda. The exact same things were argued when people were fighting for bi-racial relationships.
@ Noodles:
An animal cannot consent to anything, as it is an inferior creature. It has no conscience, no morals. A pet is nothing more than a piece of property. As such, we force many things of them that they may or may not care for.
If beastiality is rape, then putting a cougar down is murder, neutering a dog is sexual mutilation, forgetting to feed your fish is neglect, and declawing your cat would be punishable by jail time.
Consensual sex is not the issue, morality is. You can't rape an animal when it doesn't know what rape is. Do you think a dog "cares" or "knows" if it rapes another dog? Of course not. Someone could validly make the argument that, as an animal owner, it's up to him/her to decide what's best for their property, and that only they know what their animal wants. So, speaking from a human POV, how does your line of thinking deny the morality of bestiality, yet consent to homosexuality, when at the core both of these acts involve beings giving in to their sexual cravings?
If homosexuality is a sin, why did god put man's g-spot in his anus?
@ Cez:
If homosexuality isn't a sin, why does anal sex result in health complications?
BTW, just did some research on your "man's G-spot" and the results are not conclusive. While it's true that orgasm can be reached by stimulation of the prostate, this does not occur in all men, and scientists have found that men are most directly stimulated at the tip of the genitals. Furthermore, stating that the man's G-spot is located in the anus indirectly implies that men are not supposed to be aroused by vaginal sex, which means that vaginal sex would not result in an orgasm, which means that procreation is unnatural. Ridiculous.
Nada Nuff
You are intolerant. You claim that you aren't because you admit you can't force people to believe what you believe. But if you could force people to believe the same as you would you? Everything you've said leads me to believe that you would.
You cannot be reasoned with because you have no true reason to speak of yourself. Everything you say is merely you taking bits and pieces here and there from the Bible and switching your reasons or interpretations based on whatever I say.
Since you know so much about the Bible and have studied it at such great length you must know what god wants better than anyone else.
What about slavery? Do you support that? The Bible is extremely supportive of slavery: (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT), (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT), (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT), (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB), (Ephesians 6:5 NLT), (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT), (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
What about rape? You argue that just because something isn't hurting anyone else doesn't make it right. You say that you need to use the Bible to help you decide. Thanks for that piece of advice, otherwise I would have never known that rape isn't such a big deal
According to the Bible if you rape a woman all you need to do to make up for it is marry her and pay her father 50 pieces of silver: (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
Also if a married woman is raped then she should be stoned to death because she should have called for help: (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
Oh and you said that god doesn't get involved in human wars? According to (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB) it talks about how if you capture any of your enemies then they were delivered to you by god. And once again showing how the Bible is ok with rape it says that you can force any captive women to become your wife.
In (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT) god directly orders his followers to go and wage war against Babylon.
I'm sure you'll just ignore the parts of your argument that all of these counter and come up with something new to argue.
But I keep forgetting: according to you certain parts of the bible should be taken literally and others shouldn't. I should make sure to consult you before making any decisions in my life b/c only you know what to listen to and not listen to. Since I can't trust the clergy and I can't listen to "the idea of “proof” that atheistic scientists and “educated” men drill into people’s heads."
So basically you're saying that I shouldn't listen to science, I shouldn't listen to scholars, I shouldn't listen to the clergy and I shouldn't listen to certain parts of the bible. So according to you I should spend my life reading and studying the bible. That way I will be able to interpret it correctly and be a 'good person'…but only if I happen to come to the exact same conclusions as you.
I'm so glad that you explained to me how every religion (except whatever you are) and every person (except you) on earth is immoral and wrong and misguided.
"How do I know the Bible isn't the word of God? Well if it was the word of God it would be clear and easy to understand…considering God was the creator of LANGUAGE!" – Bill Hicks
"You are intolerant. You claim that you aren’t because you admit you can’t force people to believe what you believe. But if you could force people to believe the same as you would you? Everything you’ve said leads me to believe that you would."
If you could change into a cat and get high on catnip, would you do it? Please stop hypothesizing–you're trying to discuss the impossible. No one can force anyone to do anything. What other people do is their own business and none of mine.
"Everything you say is merely you taking bits and pieces here and there from the Bible and switching your reasons or interpretations based on whatever I say."
Untrue–I haven't switched my interpretations at all, you just disagree with my interpretations and assume yours are as good or better.
"But I keep forgetting: according to you certain parts of the bible should be taken literally and others shouldn’t. I should make sure to consult you before making any decisions in my life b/c only you know what to listen to and not listen to."
You don't have to consult me, as I'm hardly "the only one", as you put it, who has an understanding of the Bible. If you were actually trying to read the Bible with the point of understanding it (and not to find fault with it) and you had the right heart condition, God would help you understand the Bible. However, if you're someone who takes a fraction of the Bible and judges it based on their own limited knowledge, without trying to ascertain the true meaning, this whole point is moot anyway. Those people don't want to know the Bible.
"So basically you’re saying that I shouldn’t listen to science, I shouldn’t listen to scholars, I shouldn’t listen to the clergy and I shouldn’t listen to certain parts of the bible. So according to you I should spend my life reading and studying the bible. That way I will be able to interpret it correctly and be a ‘good person’…but only if I happen to come to the exact same conclusions as you."
Science and education has it's place, and you should listen when applicable. But when scientists, philosophers and the like begin telling people how to live their lives, how man came into being, and how God doesn't exist, I have a problem with that. Not just because it contradicts the Bible, but because their conclusions are refuted by nature itself. Often their theories and hypotheses are just as hypocritical and contradictory as what you'd find in false religion itself. Furthermore, if someone does believe in God and beileves that he has a purpose for us, then they'd understand that it's not a matter of coming to "a conclusion", it's coming to "the conclusion". In other words, God doesn't have a custom-made plan for all humans–you either work in harmony with his will, or you don't. So it stands to reason that if I and others like me are living according to God's will, of course we're going to be understanding and doing the same things. The fact that there is a variety of beliefs alone shows that some people are on the right path, and some aren't. (Matt. 7:13, 14) Believing that multiple beliefs are acceptable in the eyes of God is fallacious thinking, as he's never promoted that idea. This thinking also leads to interfaith. If traces of false worship found there way into the nation of Israel or the early Christian congregation, it was to be weeded out immediately. You can find literally dozens of Scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments that support this.
Some facts about the Bible that you probably didn't know:
–The Law mentioned at Deut. 22:28, 29 was intended to deter immorality. As you conveniently forgot to mention, an Israelite who slept with a virgin was prohibited from divorcing her afterwards, an act used to deter men from engaging in fornication in the first place. The practice of paying a purchase price to the father was common with any marriage, and had to be paid even in the event that the father refused to allow his daughter to marry. Finally, rape is not stated or implied in these verses; "seizes her and lies down with her" refers to seduction or consensual fornication. Key word: consensual.
–A woman refusing to scream during rape indicated consent. This law was to prevent Israelite women from consenting to fornication and then running and claiming it was rape. I understood the meaning before even doing research on this one.
–Slavery was a willful act in Israel, and the Law provided protection for people who chose to stay under the protection of their owners rather than live in poverty. Willful slavery has extended well past Biblical times. This is different from forced slavery, which even the Israelites themselves were subject to at a time.
–God has involved himself and his people in wars in pre-Christian times, but when the majority of the Jews (Israelites) rejected Jesus God made those of the nations (Gentiles) "his people". Therefore his followers were not all centrally located in one nation, but spread out through many nations. This has continued to the present. Why would God back any one nation in war when he has followers in literally every nation around the world? Furthermore, those ancient wars were for the outworking of God's will, in fulfillment of his promise to Abraham and to his offspring. If he saw fit to war with an opposing nation, which contained people who did not recognize him as God, then that was his prerogative. Today nations war with each other over selfish, human reasons, and always for the advancement of their government, which stands in opposition to God.
–Babylon is both a literal nation and a symbol of the entirety of false religion, so "waging war with Babylon" can reference two different things. More than likely it was a reference to war with Babylon the Great, which is not a literal war. In case it is, my statements in the last point apply. I can't reply with certainty because I just read Jeremiah 50: 21, 22 and didn't see the word Babylon mentioned once. Either you typed the wrong Scripture, or the translation you quoted used "Babylon" in place of another word.
–“How do I know the Bible isn’t the word of God? Well if it was the word of God it would be clear and easy to understand…considering God was the creator of LANGUAGE!”
The most important parts of the Bible are clear and easy to understand, it just seems hard because people simply don't want to do it. And it is very true that the Bible does contain things that are deep, symbolic, not easily understood, but even those things can be appreciated once you've learned the basics. People can't even grasp "don't murder", "don't steal", "don't fornicate", etc., things that even a child can comprehend, yet they wonder why some other portions of the Bible baffle them. You don't open a textbook and expect to learn what's in chapter sixteen at first glance, do you? No, you have to learn and believe "the easy stuff" first before you can move on.
Lastly (and I expected this from the beginning) conversations like this tend to go way off-topic, and this one is no exception.
Nada Nuff
There aren't words enough for me to describe all the ways your logic is flawed and many of your views disgust me.
Frankly I know that most of this debate is pointless because you are close minded and refuse to see anyone's point of view besides your own. I know that you'll claim I'm doing the same thing but I at least try to understand where you are coming from. I acknowledge that the bible is sacred to you and that you believe it to be the word of god. But all this aside you are unable to give me any real proof to support your argument. If the bible is correct then you should be able to give me some reasons behind it. Rather than "it says so."
As much as it disgusts me you were at least able to provide some rudimentary explanation for the other verses I quoted. I personally find the concept that not screaming during rape indicates consent to be appalling and the idea that it's ok to rape someone because then you won't be able to marry someone. Rape is still rape. Slavery is still slavery. The times don't make it right. I appreciate the historical context of it and I appreciate that it was common practice at the time. But you make so many claims to the bible being the word of god and its age or historical context not changing the meaning then that means that all of these things advocating rape or slavery should still be valid. You can't have it both ways.
You refuse to take any of my arguments and at least contemplate them. If you were to give me some reasoning behind your irrational hatred of people who have never done anything to you then at least I would think about why you feel that way. You simply disregard anything I say. You say that homosexuality is unnatural. I gave you examples of it in nature. You then say that being natural isn't enough and that we need to be above natural. You claim that the bible can't possibly mistranslated and you quote a line from the bible that proves homosexuality is a sin. I tell you that the verse you quoted is mistranslated (and the person claiming this was a minister) and you say that he must have been influenced when saying this. (By the way the word used in that passage from Corinthians is arsenokoites not homosexuals. The translation of arsenokoites is widely disputed and many people have substantial evidence that it doesn't mean homosexuals). I use reasoning that you can't find any logical counter to so you resort to simply saying that my reasoning can't possibly be right because it's not the reasoning you are using.
The problem is you aren't using reasoning at all.
Oh and in the spirit of the season I should mention Jesus wasn't born in December
Merry Christmas
its a sin ton go potty
if being gay is a sin, than so is her damm ugly ass haircut:D
being gay is a sin. so is a lesbian. wtf!!! you will all go to hell.
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LOOK PEOPLE GAY -LSBIAN ARE A SINNN GET ITT IT SAYS IN THE BIBBLE THE HOLY KORAN AND THE TORAT IF ALL ARE TRUE AND U STILL DONT HAVE A CLEAR BRAIN GO TO FUCKEN HELL !!! U GUYS DONT BELIEVE IN GOD WHAT DO U BELIVE IN A ROCK ??OR UR OWNSELF GODDS NAME IS ALLA IT EVEN SAYS IN TORAT AND KORAN ..SO THOSE BOOKS SHUD BE TRUE
IF U STILL DONT BELIVE IN GOD THEN WHO BROUGHT ADAM AND EVE TO EARTH U BRAINLESS PEOPLE ??
u shud guid yourslef to somthing useful in your life
LIFE IS NO FUNN LIFE IS A COMPETION WHETHER U DO THE GOOD OR BAD STUFF GOD SAYS IF U WANT FUN AND LOVE HE WILL GIVE U FUN AND LOVE IF U WANT IMORTALITY IN PARADISE THEN U DO WHAT U MUST DO or judgment day ur straight to hell
some genius people say that life is just a competion for you why did god put you on earth ?? so that he can wach u do bad stuff and have fun ….NO u dont either u do the right way or lead yourself to the satin wich is sooo usless and stupid u shud do the right thing those people who says there is no god … dont mind them they are HELPLESS ANIMALS
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i argue because everyone is a part of God's plan……….
@PeaceToWorld …I hate to break it to you but your logic is so flawed. You're pretty much saying "this book is true because it says so." And to be frankly honest, if you could prove to me that everything in the Bible was 100% true I would still not believe in your god because according to the Bible your god is a massive ass.
According to the Bible god intentionally gave people a sex drive (or sexual preferences) but didn't want them to use it. That seems kind of pointlessly cruel to me. Then there's always the point brought up that things like that are used to test us…well if he's all wise, all knowing, all forgiving and all loving then why does he need to test us? Either he should already know if we're worthy (since he knows everything) or he'll forgive us for not being worthy, or he'll love us for it anyway since he's supposed to be so compassionate.
Yet at the same time he never seems to miss a chance to kill a bunch of people purely to prove a point. Whenever people ask why doesn't god perform flashy miracles to prove his existence people say that it's because that would be too vulgar a display of power or that he wants people to take it on faith, well if that's the case then why does he continually interfere in what's going on (including massacring entire civilizations and asking a father to kill his own son just for the hell of it)?
In the story of Job god stops protecting Job simply to prove a point to satan. What kind of arrogance and vanity does it display when someone needs to RUIN A GOOD MAN'S LIFE just to prove a point?
If your god appeared in front of me right now and told me that he was the one true creator and everything in the Bible was true and then performed a miracle to prove it to me I'd flip him off and tell him to get lost because someone with that kind of resume can kiss my ass. If he exists as he does in the Bible then he's a callous, jealous, vain, selfish, violent, controlling jackass.